SUCCESS and the means to achieving it seems to separate Willy from his employer, his neighbors, and his family. Based on some of the more pathetic events at the start of ACT II (pp. 70-98), how is this separation playing out. One comment and one reply are due Sunday evening.
Throughout the acts, Willy holds a more idealistic and grand view of success. After watching his brother strike it rich through bold decisions, Willy has come to believe that any man is able to achieve the same success his brother attained if they take enough risks. Unfortunately, this has also left Willy to believe that unless massive wealth and prestige is gained, one is not truly successful. This belief has caused much of the dissatisfaction in his life because he is unable to see the successes his family is able to. Happy, for example, has a low level job and is able to live comfortably and is happy with his life even though he has not achieved great wealth. To Willy, Happy is not successful, and the conflicting views of success lead to conflict between Willy and Happy. Conflict also arises between Willy and his employer when Willy believes he should be promoted based on the number of years he has put into the company. In his job, Willy believes success is measured by dedication and commitment, while his employer holds a more numerical idea of success. Once again, Willy's idealism prevents him from understanding the more realistic views of his employer and the conflict between the two is inevitable. Willy's idealism also leads him to want to take big chances with money and his actions that are not supported by his frugal employer. The natural conflict between idealism and realism are the root cause of the conflict between Willy, his family, and his boss.
ReplyDeleteI think the only aspect of Ben that Willy really even considers is his wealth and riches. He sees Ben as extremely successful, yet he doesn’t seem to admire anything but his money. It’s interesting that Willy’s definition of Ben’s success is one of the things that he himself lacks. Willy could choose to look at success as finding a wife, owning a home, or having children- things that he’s never mentioned about Ben but has obtained himself. Instead he views himself as a failure. I think the reason this hurts his relationships so much is because he expects others to view success the same way he does. When others don’t value money the way he does, Willy thinks they are lazy or weak-willed. This goes along with your point of taking risks. He thinks that if other people aren’t as willing they can’t be as successful even though they’re trying to be successful in other ways.
DeleteMariah: Is Willy any different from many of us? Isn't that how capitalism is supposed to work? Carrots and sticks: you work hard and get compensated for it. You work hard in school you get good grades. You work hard in the workplace, you get a raise. So if you aren't making much money or getting A's, then you must not be working hard, right? But here is my more probing question: You say that Willy should look at owning a home, having children, and finding a wife as a way to assess our success (or Willy seeing it that way). Bucket list checked: 1, 2, 3. Is that it? Having these three things? In these three areas: wife, kids, home--how successful has he been?
DeleteKelly: "After watching his brother strike it rich through bold decisions, Willy has come to believe that any man is able to achieve the same success his brother attained if they take enough risks." Ben took a risk and struck it rich. Isn't that what anyone looking to start a business does? Get some money and take your best shot at it, right? Are there any other risks, besides venturing out into the undiscovered country or other business ventures, that characters have taken in this story? Did they even realize that these were risks when they started? How did they idealize the pay-off of these risks, and how have they handled the disappointment? In your view, how should these characters handle their disappointment?
DeleteKelly: I find it ironic that Willy measures success by wealth and power which somewhat corresponds with Howard and his reasons why he fired Willy. Both measure success by wealth, or numerical value. Both think the world of their children, force feeding their praises for their offspring to any bystander and flaunting any type of “success” even if it is inconsequential. Howard flaunts his wire recorder, which symbolizes ability to change, saying it is what every man needs, something that, incidentally, Willy does not have. And Willy flaunts his supposed charm and personality. In the end, both fail at the others supposed essential quality of success. Howard fails in that Willy finds him a “snotnose” and not charming at all, whereas Howard finds Willy unhinged and unsteady because he cannot accept the new changes and adapt to them.
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DeleteKelly agree that willy has a very different idea of success than happy does. Happy feels good about his life despite that he has very little, Willy on the other hand is all about money and wealth and could care less about happiness. I think that this is why he and Bernard do not get along because Bernard has a better paying job than he does, and this only makes willy angry with himself. This is why when biff and willy talk to one another about Bernard they say that he is not well liked. Even though willy is not well liked he thought he had to come up with something to one up him.
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ReplyDeleteWilly is so obsessed with the concept that if people like him he will sell more, his life will be easier, and he will be seen as a success. I believe Willy would even define being successful as being liked and having money. This is unfortunate because these are two things that Willy really seems to struggle with. This leaves him feeling like he’s never enough in his role as a provider, a salesman, a relative, and an employee. Since he feels a lack of self worth, he tries to push his children to do “better” than he did so they never feel this way. This causes problems though because Willy can’t comprehend that the boys don’t register success with the same conditions. Maybe when Willy and Biff both shared similar goals like winning football championships this didn’t come up as often, but now that the boys want their own lives Willy is regularly making them feel like they are failing. Willy’s intentions to make them better are just pushing them farther away from him. Also Willy’s burning desire to be successful strains his relationship with Linda. His working long hours and running himself dry forces her to work harder to mend him. He also lies to her about the amount of money he brings in because he wants to be liked, and he wants Linda to think he’s successful. Also in his work, he values being liked over good sales techniques which ironically causes him to be less successful. Willy’s drive for success is a severe contributing factor to the strain he experiences in his relationships with others.
ReplyDeleteMariah: I agree with you that Willy thinks life will be easier if he sells more and is well liked. Since he hasn’t done well at either one of these, he turns to his kids, and is trying to live his life over through them. He is using them as a second chance to meet his standards of success. Happy and Biff’s goals are different than Willy’s, and because neither of them are making much money, Willy tears them down and strains his relationship with both of them. His lack of success is affecting the whole family, and now he has barely any money, not many friends, one son that despises him, and the rest of the family watching as he deteriorates. You also brought up a good point that his focus on being well liked over good sales techniques causes him to be less successful, and that seems to go with how he expected free rides based on popularity instead of having a good career because of hard work. He didn’t work hard, and he isn’t getting the rewards of success that would make him happy.
DeleteMariah: I agree that Willy defines success in a materialistic manner, which is evident through his lauding of his brother. I think that a key thing that causes Willy to be so upset with his life also is that he lies to himself and those around him about his success. Because Willy lies about the sales he makes and the people he knows, he feels more pressure to actually live up to the image he has created of himself. The strain to be successful is created by Willy and I think some of the conflict between Willy and his kids stems from the fact that as Biff and Happy grew up, they realized Willy's lies. As children they idolized their father and everything he said, but as adults they have come to realize the failures of their father. Willy may even recognize that they can see through his veil of lies so he lashes out at their "successes" to compensate for the lack of his own. I do agree with you that it is ultimately Willy's conflicting views of success from those around his that are the root of the tension between his family.
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ReplyDeleteWilly’s view of success is very idealistic, and the ways he defines success set him up for a lot of disappointment. Willy bases success on his career and how much money he has, and believes that if his kids are successful too, then raising them as their father was a success. By basing his success solely on wealth and popularity, and by living through his children, he sets himself up for disappointment because his kids haven’t really made much money nor had incredible careers to date, and he hasn’t either. He really wants to follow in Ben’s footsteps, to travel far away to Alaska and strike it rich there. However, even if Willy did that, there could be a chance that he wouldn’t be lucky like Ben, just like how not everyone struck it rich in the California Gold Rush. Willy has gotten by with the idealism that just because you’re liked means the world will fall at your feet, and you will become wealthy in whatever you do, and I think this principle destroyed him. I see strong evidence of this in the comparison of Charley and Bernard to Willy and Biff. Before Biff’s big game, Charley pretty much told Willy to wake up and smell the coffee. He could see that Biff’s football days may not stretch must past high school before he would have to find a different job to support himself. Willy couldn’t see past his own nose, saying Biff would be successful because he was well liked and Bernard would be nothing because he wasn’t well liked. This turned out just the opposite; Bernard worked harder in school than Biff, and he was the one with the rewards. When Willy gets a slap in the face from Howard and loses his job, even after pathetically begging to keep it, it’s the ultimate failure, especially in his eyes. He isn’t making money, and his company doesn’t like him enough to keep him. Not everyone in the world can be rich and Willy destroys himself and his family over this issue. Money is important to see if you’re working hard, and it’s necessary for living, and everyone wants people to like them, but I think if Willy could appreciate his kids for who they are, start loving Linda like she should be loved, and realizing money doesn’t necessarily buy happiness, I think he could find some comfort. Even if he doesn’t have much wealth or popularity, a happy family and a roof over his head are things he can be thankful for. It’s good to have money, materials, and popularity, but sometimes success can be defined by intangible things too, a lesson that Willy fails to recognize.
ReplyDeleteI agree that Willy’s fault is basing his success on wealth. Even if he successfully achieved wealth, I don’t think that would provide Willy with the type of success he’s looking for. I think he’s looking for the success of satisfaction of having contributed something meaningful with his life. He’s just been conditioned to think that money is soley how you contribute to the world. Willy can contribute by raising a family that he loves and helps them find the personal success they’re looking for. I agree that he’s been destroyed by the idea that everyone gets to be rich in America -- he goes on the way he does because he’s trying to find out why he hasn’t gotten what he think America guarantees him, wealth for hard work.
DeleteI agree that Willy is definitely looking for lucrative wealth like his brother. And he bases his familial success/fatherly success from the wealth of his sons and how successful they become in his eyes. There is so much more to success than that and he just does not realize it. I agree with your point about him losing his job could be potentially good. Maybe, with money out of the picture, he'll start to appreciate the things he has like a loving family, a house, and food.
DeleteI think will is torn. Just like how he’s confused about what is fantasy and reality, past and present, He cannot determine how to succeed and that leads him to question everything. This subconscious inquisition leads him to separate himself from those around him. This separation is apparent to the members of Willy’s family and his sort of friends, which then causes tension, both sides questioning each other. Willy is so confused about where he and Biff went wrong that he doesn’t know what to do. This leads him to ask others and feel desperate which then makes him irritated and frustrated at himself for being so hopeless. This then leads him to blame the others around him, such as his outburst at Bernard, which leads the separation of Willy and the others to expand. But, now that Happy and Biff know the extent of Willy’s insanity, they hover over him trying to protect him from his failures. I think Willy’s main reason with why he cannot succeed is that he is indecisive which leads him to hate change for it makes him make a choice. This indecisiveness and fear of changes, or metathesiophobia, is fed and reinforced by Linda, such as when she kept Willy from dropping his job as a salesman for the Alaska opportunity with Ben. Not to mention Ben his the representation of success to Willy and always brings an opportunity for success, as well as looming possibilities of change, but Linda fears and hates him.
ReplyDelete"Willy is so confused about where he and Biff went wrong that he doesn’t know what to do. This leads him to ask others and feel desperate which then makes him irritated and frustrated at himself for being so hopeless." He is doing a lot of asking others at this point, isn't he? You can feel his desperation in these scenes, so much that it is hard to watch. Question: how far back is Willy going to figure out when he went wrong with his son?
DeleteMetathesiophobia?? I want to land that sucker on a triple word score.
I believe that you are right, Ariel. He blames others for his failures throughout not just ACT II but also throughout the whole play. He yells at Charley, Happy, Linda, and anyone else who is viewed as weak, but possibly secretly successful in his unconscious thoughts. And Linda does enforce this behavior. She denies the fact that Willy and their family need help. She doesn’t encourage Biff enough to move along with his life and try to become serious with holding down a job, or of the fact that Willy can’t support them for much longer without getting help from Charley. They both are too prideful for the truth, and this keeps everyone as a whole from succeeding. Willy is definitely confused and upset at the fact that he can’t figure out what he ever had to do to become successful like his brother, but there’s certainly blame that is thrown out all around him and he expects others to help clean up the mess and obey to his commands and well as agree with every one of his ideas and plans.
DeleteI believe you are right Ariel about him being confused. He is not quite sure which way is the direct way to success. I think that he feels there are many different to success, but he still hasn't figured out which one is right, for himself at least. I feel part of him thinks that he can just coast by, as long as he is "well liked" and he will just pour in the big bucks, which he teaches to his kids. Another part of him thinks that success is an overnight deal, but continues to get shafted by people like his brother and his boss who seem to just get lucky. The third part of him involves hard work, which he has definitely done. This is revealed when he admires the 84 year old man, who is still doing business from the phone at his age to many, many cities. This shows that Willy loves what he does, and has done, but not all of the stress and let downs that come with it, and he thinks that he deserves success after all of this time because he has put his whole life into being a salesmen. These conflicting ideas still has him confused on how to become successful, even at age 63 I believe, and this confusion has projected onto his sons as well.
DeleteWilly and his quest for success has isolated him from his employer his neighbors, and his family. Willy views success as being 'well liked', as he has stated throughout the whole play. Willy pushes his sons and himself to be 'well liked' because of what he observed at the funeral of the salesman, Dave Singleman. I believe Willy does not ever achieve success because he was trying to mimic the success of another man. Dave Singleman was successful, according to Willy because he loved his job and made many acquaintances that attended at his funeral. From then on Willy decided to become a salesman, he thought it was '-the greatest career a man could want.' What Willy did not take into account about Dave Singleman was that he did not have a family like himself. He was a "single man", as foreshadowed in his last name; he most likely lived a lonely life with no one to share his 'success' with.
ReplyDeleteWilly views doing a good job is based on dedication, like Kelly said; unlike his boss. Willy tells him that Dave worked all the way up untill his death at the age of 84, and he had been promoted long before then, and so should Willy. Because of Willy's and Howard's contradicting views, Willy is fired and becomes a "single man."
Willy separates himself from his neighbors because he feels less successful than them. Willy sees
Charlie as successful because he is well liked and is making more money than him, enough to lend him the occasion $20 or more.
Willy separates himself from his family the most. Happy is a very successful man and sees himself as such. Because Happy is not well liked or achieving the American dream, Willy does not see him as successful. This is the cause for their arguments and contradicting views.
Cayla: I also believe that Willy's definition of success really wouldn't bemy definition of success either. He doesn't believe that he is more successful than the single salesman, when in fact, he should feel as if he is even more successful than him. The dead salesman lived a lonely life, whereas Willy has had family around his whole life and also has a job. It might not be a well paying job, but at least he has something to look forward to when he comes home.
DeleteWilly’s idea of success is being well-liked and impressive sounding, because he’s gotten to the point that he thinks thats how to achieve the satisfaction of the American Dream. He finds satisfaction in being a salesman because he finds the process of selling to be something to turn his life into something successful, because selling something involves twisting something into this great, exciting thing that people will buy into. The American Dream that Willy thought existed -- working hard to get results -- didn’t really work out for Willy, so he’s become desperate to get the success of the American Dream that is so elusive that he figures that he has to make himself stand out more to get it. Society tells us that achievement is possible for everyone in America, and Willy hasn’t felt achievement with his career, which is considered so important for men, so he feels like he didn’t tackle the American dream the right way yet. Working hard didn’t get it, so he searches for other ways to get the American Dream, and finds that everything around him is about sounding big, great, impressive, even if the reality isn’t as so -- that’s the world of advertising and selling. Willy then takes this way of selling and advertising to his own life, twisting the parts he didn’t like into a fantasy where everything just seems to come together, to try to snatch the sense of achievement he desires. He ignores Happy because Happy isn’t a popular person like Biff, whose football talents are exciting enough to sound impressive enough to sell. Biff has been led down a path of dissatisfaction because of this, because I don’t think Willy really ever got to know who Biff really was beyond the image of this popular football player, and never encouraged Biff to figure this out about himself, causing Biff to be aimless. I think that Willy exaggerates either the success that Ben had or the lack of real effort Ben had to in getting his dream, because Willy is tired of thinking that he somehow was not able to achieve the dream with hard work, so he needs to keep in his fantasy that there’s another way to guarantee it. With Howard, Willy doesn’t understand that having something that sounds impressive, having given the name to Howard, but doesn’t actually contribute or mean anything, doesn't get anything done. He can make a big deal about how much he knows his father and all of this, but if he can’t do sell successfully, he can’t have a job. This seems to break Willy since if he can’t sell himself to someone, which he’s now based his whole life on, what does his life mean, and can he even sell this fantasy of a life to himself? The reality is that not everything that sounds great on the outside has much substantiality to back it up. This is evident in how all the products that Willy thinks should be pretty much immortal due to their advertising, keep breaking -- the fantasy that people give off don’t live up to the reality, where things are difficult, require work, and just sometimes don’t plain work out, because that’s life. Willy might not have gotten the results he wanted from his career, but he has a family that loves him. But since the America has promised him results for his career -- he has to mold his life into an exciting fantasy so people will buy into it, like advertising does. If he didn’t achieve what America made possible to him, then he must have some flaw he thinks that makes him not worthy of what America has promised of him.
ReplyDelete"This is evident in how all the products that Willy thinks should be pretty much immortal due to their advertising, keep breaking -- the fantasy that people give off don’t live up to the reality, where things are difficult, require work, and just sometimes don’t plain work out, because that’s life." Tell you what, Amanda, this is a lesson teachers, young or old, face all the time. We get into this thing all pumped up with ideals and visions of being Mr. Holland or some other immortalized teacher from movies like "Dead Poet Society". That fantasy ends mighty fast. It's all we can do to keep these folks in for more than three years. :) GREAT post by the way.
DeleteWilly bases success off of money. He thinks of his broth Ben as a true success solely for the fact that he has money. He rarely sees his brother, and all of his flashbacks of him have been cut short, alluding that he doesn't know much about him, and whether he is happy. Howard, he views as successful because he has power: power over him, and the company. Both of these characters that he fells are a true "success" did it practically overnight, with Ben coming back rich with gold, and Howard with inheriting the company. The time put in to earning something means nothing to his boss Howard, or his brother Ben, because they quickly came across wealth, and they don't know the struggle of Willy. Because Willy has put his whole life into it, he feels he deserves more and a better career situation, but because his boss only looks at the money right now, he is quick to let him go.
ReplyDeleteFor the younger generation, I feel like they measure success in a different way. Happy, who has gotten a job and and has made his own money, measures it by his father. When he was younger, he was always overshadowed by Biff, and no matter how much he starved for the same attention, he never received it. He will never be successful in his own eyes until he makes his father proud. Biff, on the other hand, who has a complicated relationship with his father, has a completely different view, and feels that one gains success by freedom and happiness. I think his goals are a family, and land, with the sanctity of not being locked in an office or call all day, and being able to enjoy life and not have it be controlled by money. All of these different views seem complicate the characters relationships, and what is right for each other.
"Both of these characters that he fells are a true "success" did it practically overnight, with Ben coming back rich with gold, and Howard with inheriting the company." What an interesting parallel: overnight successes, both. Each are helped by a bit of luck, although one had to take a risk. But, as you said, it's time that's key here. As quick as it was that they got their wealth and prestige, is ask quick that Howard can cut a man off from his livelihood. Question: How much of our culture was becoming more and more built on speed in the 40s? Manufacturing, delivery systems, companies rising, falling, products made quicker and cheaper?
DeleteI was thinking the same thing. I think for each person and for each generation the definition of success and the American dream differs. I also agree with what you said about Biff, that he thinks success is tied to happiness. I would like to add that I don’t think he always felt that way; in the beginning I feel Biff felt he was successful when he received his father’s praise, but has grown to the point where the only person he needs to satisfy is himself. It is surprising to me that Willy has not changed his goals and ideas of success because he is at the end of the road and is still reaching for the unattainable. He is just waiting for success to hit and is not doing anything substantial about it. I think Willy has been successful and has the American dream. Sure he is not wealthy, but he has a house, a wife, and raised two polite children. I know he wants more for his sons, but I think they need to find their own success.
DeleteAt the beginning of the second Act we are introduced to Howard, Willy's boss. Howard is so preoccupied with his own life and family that he does not pay much attention to the issues Willy needs to address. It is evident that Howard belittles Willy because of how unsympathetic he is toward Willy’s predicament and how he addresses Willy as “kid,” when Willy is much older. Through the tone of this scene it is relayed to the reader that this man is successful. This is somewhat paradoxical because the story is all about building a life and gaining success, where the company was just handed to Howard by his father. Howard also lives a luxurious life with his expensive recorder, which he encourages Willy to buy when Willy cannot even afford to pay for his insurance. Howard is so successful, he cannot find enough compassion to give Willy an office job or even allow him to keep his job. Howard easily suggests that Willy swallows his pride and asks his sons for money. Thirty-four years of work means nothing to Howard, yet he has attained the American dream.
ReplyDeleteMORGAN: 'the story is all about building a life and gaining success, where the company was just handed to Howard by his father.' That is so cool that you picked up on that irony! I think it is also ironic that Willy has tried to mimic the life of Dave Singlemam and his success but yet has not amounted any in his line of work.
DeleteMORGAN: What else did you find that is ironic??
DeleteWilly believes that success is a physical feature that is the only way to prove how successful you are. I feel that his brother has convinced him of that when he asks Willy to show him what he has built that makes him as successful as he always brags about. I believe Willy believed at one point that success wasn’t always tangible, but his brother’s opinion made him change his own opinion, as he stated that he values his thoughts. Willy does not see the success that his family has made, for instance they almost paid off their mortgage on their house, and Happy has a stable job with satisfaction of his life. He is so caught up in his beliefs of only his and Biff’s success, everyone else around him never mattered. He believes that that success isn’t really success because they’re not as wealthy as they could’ve been, or at the level of his brother and other men he’s met in life, like the 84 year old man. He begs his boss to give him a raise, and ends up let go. Willy believes that friendship and loyalty will give a man success, but his boss thinks believes that sales matter more than feelings should in order to keep the business going. Willy’s view of success has kept him from being successful. He is too close minded and, honestly, self centered to understand this concept. Nothing has gone his way due to the fact that started off believing his family and himself only needed his and Biff’s success to be happy, and ended up losing everything by denying the fact he was trying to save his pride and thinking he’d get his way when he talked to his boss.
ReplyDeleteSam: I agree with you that Willy does believe success to be a concrete physical feature. He thinks success to be monetary and represented through reputation. To him, neither Biff nor him have achieved success up to his standards. Sure, Happy may be a little successful, but Willy does not notice. Similar to the way he never really noticed Happy when Happy was growing up. I think Willy really compares Biff to Bernard, and that's why he doesn't really care about Happy. Bernard is more successful than Biff in his eyes, and that disappoints him.
DeleteWilly is different from many people in that he bases his and other people's success on how much money they earn doing their job. He believes that since he makes less money, he isn't as successful as a guy who makes so much money, yet has no family or anyone to share it with. But in reality, success isn't necessarily based off of how much you make; it's about the family that you can share that wealth with. Willy's neighbors, Bernard and Charley, are very successful. Charley is a very wealthy man who owns his own business, but maybe isn't as successful as Willy at the same time. Charley does have Bernard, but Bernard doesn't stay with him., They are both lonely men who care a lot about money and less about family. Willy and Linda are the exact opposite, but Willy doesn't seem to appreciate it as much because he wants money. Willy is very envious of Bernard because he turned out "better" than both of his sons. Neither of his sons combined are as successful as Bernard in the money department, but he doesn't realize that Biff and Happy are both better people than Bernard is. Willy's friends and neighbors have nothing on his family. It's together, loving, and caring for each other. Even though they may not be as wealthy, they are rich in support and care.
ReplyDeleteThey are rich in support and care. You came to this notion by contrasting him with Bernard and Charley, who apparently are well-off, but distant. Hmmm. So all of this fighting and denial stuff is support and care?
DeleteI once lived in an apartment complex above a couple who fought all the time. Shouting, screaming, slamming stuff around. Kept thinking: Why don't you two get divorced already?! It's been twelve years since we moved out, and last we heard they were still together.
I totally agree that Charley and Bernard have less than Willy because they have more money. There's nothing of value to use that money for, but i think the fact that Willy doesn't have that kind of money blinds him from seeing what he truly is blessed with. I think Willy knows he has more, but the fact that he has so much less money than Charley and Bernard just causes him to forget about that and crave more wealth.
DeleteTo Willy, success is a very concrete term that does not have many aspects to it. To him, having wealth and power is when he can truly say that he has been successful. Specifically, when it comes to work, he has been surrounded by his version of success with his brother, and his boss Howard. His brother achieved Willy’s version of success through high business risks and Howard clearly has power over Willy and he wants both of these things. Unfortunately for him, he doesn't realize that there are more ways to reach success. He focuses so much time and longing to achieve it there, he doesn't reflect on his home life. But then again, he lets his professional success interfere with his familial success by seeing his father responsibilities if his sons earn wealth and power as well.
ReplyDelete"But then again, he lets his professional success interfere with his familial success by seeing his father responsibilities if his sons earn wealth and power as well." How many parents these days do that? This business of raising our children as resume builders? How much of what we value in the workplace makes its way in the way we raise our children?
DeleteEthan: I believe that wealth and power is what he believes is success, but I disagree that he believes that success is though high risks, because Willy has never taken a risk. He believes that the way to be successful is to be well liked, and to have a history. And while Howard does have power, I am not sure if Willy really sees it. He views himself really high because he named him and knew him for so long. I think that his idea of getting successful if different than others, and that is why he is having such a hard time going up the latter. I do agree that he does not reflect on his home life. He doesn't really do much about his sons, and Linda is stuck there doing all the work. But I do see where you're coming from when you say his professional success interferes with his families success.
DeleteWilly is very upset with the lack of success he’s had in several aspects of his life.He’s starting to understand the low amount of success he’s had, and is beginning to lash out people around him that have either had more or less success than him. These realizations may also be a contributing factor to his daydreams. He lashes out at Howard because Howard represents his lack of success in his job. While Howard is head of the sale’s company at a young age, Willy is old and still stuck as a lowly salesman. He’s been stuck as a salesman since he was 18 and is really starting to get upset about it. Willy sees this, and gets very upset with Howard, and in turn has a daydream. Next, Willy gets upset with Charley. Charley represents the lack of familial stress that Willy has. As far as we know, Charley has a good job and family. Bernard is successful, and this makes Willy upset because his sons are not. Willy thinks about this while they are playing cards, and that triggers the daydream about Ben. To Willy, Ben is a physical manifestation of the success he could’ve achieved if he had taken a different path in his life. If Willy had gone with Ben to Alaska, he would’ve achieved success in both his job and family.
ReplyDeleteEthan, I agree with the fact that you separated the different groups depending on the kind of success they had. He does seem to realize that he could’ve been Howard if only he had been more successful and he also notices the kind of family that Charley and Bernard have, especially in comparison to his, which is mostly broken down now. I never really thought of how Ben is like his ultimate goal/aspiration in terms of success but it definitely fits in with what we know of their relationship so far- Ben was the one he always looked up to and the reason he felt so inferior throughout his life. Willy’s father didn’t seem to care for him and Ben seemed to be too busy for him, so all Willy has ever wanted was their approval, which is why he can never measure up to his ideals of success. I like how you pointed out that Willy would’ve been successful if he had just gone with Ben, but I think that it’s just an excuse to not deal with the mess of his actual life.
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ReplyDeleteWhen you look at all three different groups that he is put in comparison to, it’s easy to see that his employer represents the level of success he wants, his neighbors represent the level he is at, and his family represents a lower level than him. But the thing that really separates them is that while they are all generally okay with their lot in life, Willy is always left wanting more and feeling like he has not been rewarded fairly in life. In relation to his job, Willy is correct in thinking that hard work should have gotten him more success than it did, especially when you look at how his boss treats him condescendingly and as if he is better than him, even though he only got his job because of his father. In terms of his neighbors, they are at the same level, but Willy still feels as if he must lie and cheat to prove that he is better than them, though they both put in about equal amounts of work. In terms of his family, Willy can see that they are nowhere near the level of success that he wants so he looks down on his sons because they don’t have the drive for more in life; he wants them to want what he wants but they don’t so he is angry at them because he knows they’re more capable of reaching his dreams than he is. Willy thinks of success only in terms of how much money he has and his status in life, so that’s why he can’t look at his success in terms of other aspects in life, like having a healthy family; this is why he will never truly feel happy with his life.
ReplyDelete"He wants them to want what he wants but they don’t so he is angry at them because he knows they’re more capable of reaching his dreams than he is." What a complicated statement. He wants them to reach his dreams, and knows they are more capable of doing so, so he's mad at them for not attaining them. Is he really that bad a guy if he wants his kids to reach the dreams he couldn't attain for himself? Isn't that what any good parent wants? I've met sooooooo many parents who never went to college, regretted it, and fight tooth and nail to push their kids to go. They work their butts off to help them pay for it, show up to every parent-teacher conference, bug me every time grades drop. Does the kid want it as much as Mom or Dad? Probably not.
DeleteTanja: Wow! I love how you pointed out those comparisons of levels of where he's at, where he would like to be and where his family is at! I totally agree that he will never truly feel happy with his life. I, too, think that he only cares about money and because of that, there's no room for any other ways to look at success! I think this is why he's so insecure and thus, feels like he must cheat to prove that he is better like you said!
DeleteTo Willy, having wealth and respect equals success. His brother was wealthy and Willy discusses his regrets of not having gained that wealth with him. In Willy's eyes, success is all about the amount of money you have in your possession. This means, you could have all the money and have no family or friends and still be a success according to Willy. Most people view success as being comfortable and happy, surrounded by the people you love, not all revolving around money. This is also why he wants his kids to get rich, so they are successful and in turn making him successful as well. He wants to live through his children, but that is only if they are a success story.
ReplyDeleteWhat's odd about this is that, as you say, "respect" itself equals success. But you can't earn respect if you insult your friends, right?
DeleteCharlotte: "He wants to live through his children, but that is only if they are a success story." I agree with this. I feel as though by having sons who have not reached success in the way he views it to be (measured by wealth), he is not only disappointed in himself, but disappointed threefold because neither he nor either of his sons are his idea of successful. He pushes his sons to become the form of successful he always wanted to achieve, perhaps hoping that they can still reach it in his lifetime so that he can die not feeling like a failure. Willy is so dissatisfied with his life, but what he does not understand is that he has something others would consider him luckier and wealthier to have: a loving family. Just as you said, "most people view success as being comfortable and happy, surrounded by the people you love, not all revolving around money." I hope that by the end of the play Willy will come to value the things you listed instead of always focusing on what others have more of (money).
DeleteWilly believes that wealth equals success. Howard and Ben are both successes in his mind; They both became rich. However, Willy does not consider the fact that these two men struck wealth by luck. They did not struggle or work hard to get to a “successful” point. Yet, Willy says to Howard that he “put thirty-four years into this firm”, suggesting that he is deserving due to his long-term hard work. Willy is using the argument of hard work against a man who has never experienced it in his career. The separation between these two men is found in their views of what the means of achieving success should be. Willy thinks it should be hard work while his employer doesn’t consider hard work necessary because he simply inherited the company. When Howard fires Willy, Willy becomes the furthest from his idea of successful that he could possibly be. Now he isn’t only not wealthy, but he won’t be making any money at all.
ReplyDeleteBecause Willy views success as wealth, this separates him from his sons as well. His sons are not working impressive jobs or making a lot of money, so he views this as a disappointment. This idea of success equaling wealth makes Willy blind to things that he takes for granted and others would consider him successful for having: his family for example. People who care for him.
I think a big part of Willy's view on himself and his success is the state of his family. His sons are lost, and his wife is the only thing holding his family together. His dream of having a perfect family is very broken, as his family is very lost and dysfunctional. He craves success so badly, and this is part of the reason that he feels so destroyed as a salesman, father, and person. I think part of the reason Willy feels unsuccessful is because he doesn't really understand or know his family, particularly Ben. When Ben comes back, it seems to be quite the occasion, and as Willy sees that Ben has money, and lots of it, he immediately feels lesser, and becomes almost angry at himself for being "unsuccessful". Similarly, with Charley, he gets angry when Charley offers to help him out, and disregards everything that Bernard has to say about his sons. He has to cheat in cards, can't even talk about taking a new job, and shuns Bernard, all because Willy feels like a lesser person simply because his hard work has yet to truly pay off. The separation between success and Willy's means of achieving it really comes from his view of those around them, and that because they have immense success, he mustn't associate with them, creating a lack of confidence and Willy and his life.
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DeleteOn top of Willy being close-minded and stubborn, I believe that Willy's operational definition of success pushes him away from everybody around him. His isolation from people is his own doing and the disappointment he has comes from his expectations. He leads himself into his disbelief in satisfaction coming from the little things that may make others happy. His lack of happiness results from his materialistic mindset. Generally, wealth is key in success for Willy. Because Willy is already close-minded, his high expectations of making money to be happy blinds him from the damage that he is actually causing! The materialistic things he cares about builds up barriers that block him from appreciating his sons and the job he initially had. He didn't appreciate his blessings and everything he already had. In fact, he didn't consider anything a blessing. Success means having money, a stable job, and a nice status/reputation to Willy. Because of this mindset, conflicts have been built up between Willy and himself and everyone surrounding him. His lack of success, which comes from his lack of appreciation, all link to his desire to be like his brother. On top of Willy being close-minded and stubborn, I believe that Willy's operational definition of success pushes him away from everybody around him. His isolation from people is his own doing and the disappointment he has comes from his expectations. He leads himself into his disbelief in satisfaction coming from the little things that may make others happy. His lack of happiness results from his materialistic mindset. Generally, wealth is key in success for Willy. Because Willy is already close-minded, his high expectations of making money to be happy blinds him from the damage that he is actually causing! The materialistic things he cares about builds up barriers that block him from appreciating his sons and the job he initially had. He didn't appreciate his blessings and everything he already had. In fact, he didn't consider anything a blessing. Success means having money, a stable job, and a nice status/reputation to Willy. Because of this mindset, conflicts have been built up between Willy and himself and everyone surrounding him. His lack of success, which comes from his lack of appreciation, all link to his desire to be like his brother.On top of Willy being close-minded and stubborn, I believe that Willy's operational definition of success pushes him away from everybody around him. His isolation from people is his own doing and the disappointment he has comes from his expectations. He leads himself into his disbelief in satisfaction coming from the little things that may make others happy. His lack of happiness results from his materialistic mindset. Generally, wealth is key in success for Willy. Because Willy is already close-minded, his high expectations of making money to be happy blinds him from the damage that he is actually causing! The materialistic things he cares about builds up barriers that block him from appreciating his sons and the job he initially had. He didn't appreciate his blessings and everything he already had. In fact, he didn't consider anything a blessing. Success means having money, a stable job, and a nice status/reputation to Willy. Because of this mindset, conflicts have been built up between Willy and himself and everyone surrounding him. His lack of success, which comes from his lack of appreciation, all link to his desire to be like his brother.
ReplyDelete"In fact, he didn't consider anything a blessing. Success means having money, a stable job, and a nice status/reputation to Willy" How might this be related to his Singleman-complex? How might his reverence for Singleman's memory contribute to his not regarding anything as a blessing? Does his memory of his father or Ben contribute in any way to not regarding what he has as blessings?
DeleteI believe that Willy is very selfish. He grew up without a father and looked up to his brother Ben, and his brother's success gave him an unrealistic ideal for working. I agree Willy's biggest concern was wealth, this isn't necessary a bad thing. What makes this negative is the fact that Willy is being selfish, his goal isn't to be financially stable for the sake of his family. This is apparent in the envy he has for Charlie. I think it's very insightful that you've picked up on Willy being ungrateful for what he does have. His lack of appreciate leads to the neglect of his family. He doesn't watch out for Biff or teach him any useful skills and he is unfaithful to his doting wife. This separates him from the people around him, his desire to obtain more blinds him.
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ReplyDeleteWilly has felt like to be successful is to be well liked and to earn a lot of money. But because he believes he needs to be well liked, he actually hurt himself even more. He didn’t have any actual skill at being a salesman. He needs to have skills, and connections, not just be well liked. He doesn't have these because he hasn't kept his eyes on the real way to become a success. And to be honest, even though he tries to be well liked, he doesn’t actually achieve that. Along with that, he blames a lot of people for his problems and does not believe that he is to blame for anything. He wants more in life, but won't take an opportunity when it comes his way. Like when Charley offered him a job, he refused to take it. He believes he is too good for a lot of things, but he really doesn't have the ability to do what he believes he deserves. When Howard said that there was no place for him in New York, he believed he should have gotten the job purely because he knew Howard when he was a child, and he helped name him. But in reality, he does not bring in anything for the business. His old neighbor Bernard is going in front of the supreme court because he worked hard in school and in life, while Biff never finished the one class he had to do to graduate. Willy has turned his family to not reach success, while everyone around them are doing well. Willy cannot reach success, and this is all because he believes he is too good for everyone, and believes that success will just come to him, when it wont.
ReplyDeleteWilly believed that success come from being well-liked. He has told his sons on more than one occasion that that's the only thing they need to get ahead in life. This is why he is so confident about Biff, because he knows that he has charisma. This belief is very unrealistic and it's why Biff grows up to fall flat on his face. Bernard on the other hand knows that things don't come that easily, he works hard to keep himself and Biff on track, but Biff has adopted his fathers ideals. Ultimately this is why Bernard grows up to be a "successful" lawyer while Biff cannot even get Bill Oliver to look his way. It's pitiful that Willy believes this, he was just being hopeful of the American Dream, but he left out the most important aspect of the American Dream- hard work. He knows that anyone has the opportunity to make something of themselves, he's even seen it from his brother Ben who miraculously found wealth in Alaska. I think once his sons grew up they lost their boyish naivety and realized that what their father taught them was wrong, and from their they picked up their own beliefs. Biff believes success comes from being productive and making a difference, while Happy thinks it comes from not being lonely. What separates Willy from Charlie, Bernard, Biff, and Happy is that he's the only one with the vain belief. Him thinking that you're successful if you're liked it ignorant an superficial.
ReplyDeleteI agree wholeheartedly, the key to the American Dream is hard work. However, Willy doesn't see that the American Dream can come true with any career choice; he thinks it directly has to be with business. Biff could very well live the American Dream with his passion for farming and being outdoors as long as he puts all his might into it; but Willy refuses to even consider that in his mind. And his sons truly did realize that everything wasn't the way Willy views life; I think Biff more so than Happy though. I think Happy still definitely has some superficial beliefs - he does boast about his money and all the girls that he gets with. But he does realize that those aren't the only important things in life - the family is still extremely important to him. Willy should have tried stepping into others' shoes, like Charlie, Bernard, and Biff. If he would have, his life might have turned out a lot more positive and he probably would have been happy.
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ReplyDeleteI believe that success in Willy’s eyes is solely based on wealth and being well-liked by others. Even when we get flashbacks to his younger days when dementia wasn’t destroying his mind, he was constantly talking about money. As for his sons, Willy also believes that being apart of a career that brings in lots of cash is the only road with success for them. However, Willy doesn’t realize that he’s become successful because he has such a loving family and a dedicated wife. Biff strongly believes that success in life comes with doing something that you love and happiness. After the many years, Willy is no longer enjoying his business job and he doesn’t even get close to the pay that he used to which makes him feel like he’s failing with life. And whenever Biff gets home, Willy gets down his throat how his life will end up a failure if he doesn’t find a good paying job. Willy doesn’t provide Biff with any support for his dream to be a farmer and he knocks him down nearly every time it’s brought up. As for Linda, success is maintaining a family and the home - taking care of everyone is always of high importance to her. Even when they are struggling with money and payments, Linda remains positive and finds ways around it; she knows that money isn’t everything in life. However, Willy’s boss seems to have a fairly similar view of success. He believes it’s essential to be well-liked, rich, and extremely professional in order to be successful. Willy failed to realize that success runs a lot deeper than the superficial things in life.
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